Why Sniper instead of LightingGun?

[Ender]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Initially, I really disliked the Lightning Gun. To me, it didn't have the heft and "feel" of a solid sniping weapon. As such, I was a huge proponent of bringing back the Sniper Rifle in later titles. As time went on and I played more with both, I really grew to appreciate the Lightning Gun.

I'm glad you did - it was the most creative and good step forward the UT series ever saw.

To the casual gamer, the two weapons are pretty much just the same thing with a different visual and so their opinions are largely based upon that. To the hardcore player, its the subtle differences that can really make or break a weapon. I like them both for their small differences, and these days I could really go either way except for one fact: nostalgia.

That's really quite a bad reason imo. Sure nostalgia is great and has its purpose in games, but as the main reason to bring back a particular type of weapon when you've already moved in a more positive direction it's not good.

We amped up the fiction of the Sniper a bit in UC2 -- it fired a shard of enriched Tarydium instead of just a bullet, and therefore left a glowing blue trail. Although there are still obvious differences, that did help address some of the big problems with the 2k4 Sniper vs. Lightning Gun. Joe Graf used to run around the office cheering that UC2's rifle had the best feel of and Sniper he'd played. I thought it was pretty diggity, too -- especially for a console.

The UC2 sniper was pretty good except for two things: The zoom was awful...I remember joe saying it was the best zoom he'd ever seen and I thought that maybe it was the only zoom he'd ever seen, because that is one terrible zoom. The zoom on the lg was it's weakest point, but the zoom on the UC2 sniper was even worse. For a reference of a good zoom see the sniper scope on UT2004's sniper. That gun was utterly useless, but the scope on it was the best the UT series has ever seen.

The 2nd bad thing was that you couldn't get a headshot (that I ever saw anyways) unless you were zoomed in, which is pretty limiting. Because it shot a spread of shards when not zoomed in it just did random damages and also was pretty worthless at long range, so even if you were good at aiming with the super handicap of a console controller you wouldn't be rewarded for using the sniper unless you zoomed in. That's a bad game design decision in my book - which is why I never chose the sniper in UC2, but always the shock rifle.

I'll leave the current implimentation of the Sniper as a surprise for you guys, but I do feel confident in telling you that there are no plans to impliment a Lightning gun in this title.

The lg was a better idea, but so long as the new sniper functions more or less the same it will fine. To do this it needs the following:
1) No puff of smoke

2) Balance: Good RoF in conjunction with the damage amount, and the same weapon switch time as everything else, as well as a goodly damage amount.

The best way to help realize what this is is to compare the UT2004 sniper to the LG. The LG does 70 damage, the Sniper 60. I don't know exactly but it felt like it took about twice as long to switch weapons from the Sniper as it did from the LG. The Sniper felt like it shot about 50% slower than the LG, which is a bad tradeoff already since a) it does 10 less damage, b) you can't switch to another weapon as fast, and c) you get an annoying puff of smoke which screws up your next shot, which wouldn't be all that critical if you hit it anyways. The puff, the slow weapon switch, and the slow rof would have been justifiable if the gun did 90 damage, but since it did even less than the lg, it became in all reality a completely worthless gun.

3) Bullet Trails ala UC2 or Halo style. This is an essential balancing mechanic that the LG accomplished perfectly.

4) Keep the UT2004 zoom - no red or scan lines.

These 4 things will essentially make the gun worthwhile and a suitable replacement for the best step forward this series ever saw. Using either past iterations of sniper used would be bad as the 2k4 sniper is too weak and useless and the ut99 sniper is ridiculously overpowered.

[Entropy]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that we're using the UC2 design as a basis for UT. I was merely pointing out that we made a change to the fiction which made it more of an "Unreal weapon" and less of a "real-world weapon" that also allowed us to do more with it, such as the trail.

With regards to the triple shot fire (and inability to get head shots while unzoomed) on the UC2 Sniper, I think that it was absolutely the right decision to make for that game. For UT, it would be a whole different story.

Lastly, I do like the Lightning Gun, and it certainly has its place (as I said before) in that game. I think that one of the cool things that people need to consider in 2k4 maps is which of the two weapons to place, as it can have a pretty significant influence on how the map plays out (as is the case with all weapon placement). It's now permenantly part of the Unreal Arsenal, and there's no saying it won't make a comeback at a later date. Just like the Ripper, Stinger, Enforcers...

[Roulette]

It's not nice to tease me with Ripper love....

[Killalot0]

^haha indeed. As long as the new sniper has a trail im happy and it seems im happy so :P

[Apathy]

Originally Posted by Entropy

With regards to the triple shot fire (and inability to get head shots while unzoomed) on the UC2 Sniper, I think that it was absolutely the right decision to make for that game. For UT, it would be a whole different story.

Just to make something more clear. I don't mind.. In fact, I really like having the tracer shot. I was just meaning that for sniper based gameplay, where the whole point is to camp, and not have anyone know where you are.
As for DM, CTF, and other faster paced gameplay, a tracer shot is definitely for the better

[Kronos[X]]

I'm usually always shooting on the move, so the puff of smoke never bother me. I also found that the LG visual helped me to get better with this weapon. I'll miss the LG, but I'll just adapt to the new weapon, and get on with it.

Originally Posted by Roulette

It's not nice to tease me with Ripper love....

I think he meant it made a comeback in one of the UC games.

[fuegerstef]

Originally Posted by Entropy

...which made it more of an "Unreal weapon" and less of a "real-world weapon" that also allowed us to do more with it, such as the trail.

Are trail AND shot hitscan or both projectile (both options would be good) or do they have different types (that would be bad) ??

[Ender]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that we're using the UC2 design as a basis for UT. I was merely pointing out that we made a change to the fiction which made it more of an "Unreal weapon" and less of a "real-world weapon" that also allowed us to do more with it, such as the trail.

With regards to the triple shot fire (and inability to get head shots while unzoomed) on the UC2 Sniper, I think that it was absolutely the right decision to make for that game. For UT, it would be a whole different story.

Thanks for clarifying.

Lastly, I do like the Lightning Gun, and it certainly has its place (as I said before) in that game. I think that one of the cool things that people need to consider in 2k4 maps is which of the two weapons to place, as it can have a pretty significant influence on how the map plays out (as is the case with all weapon placement). It's now permenantly part of the Unreal Arsenal, and there's no saying it won't make a comeback at a later date. Just like the Ripper, Stinger, Enforcers...

I love the LG, but like I said the main thing that matters is how well it functions in the rest of the game. So long as the new sniper you're building functions within the game as well as the lg did I'll be more than happy.

Please no UC2 red scope or lg scan line scopes though.

[Dozinator]

I started in UT99 with Sniper Rifle and moved to Zark. Once 2k3 came out The Zark Rifle Spoon made was really nice. 2k4 I had to learn the DM weapons and the Lightning gun at first I hated do to the Smoke fuzzy zoom it had. I have grown to love it. The LG is now what owns in ONS. I am sure what ever you come out with 2k7 I will have to learn to love that too. Just hurry up with that Demo. So I can build another machine.

[*Lyntan]

I now am quite reassured, but I fear I will literally explode if it eventually turns out that the Sniper does not in fact have a trail.

I'm not even going to entertain the idea of the Ripper being in UT2007 because of the heartbreak I will inevitably suffer when I find out that it's not in there.